Proof of Engine Age

[Nick Lowe]

At my recent IVA all seemed OK but we got held up on proof of engine age. I have a C5AE casting of an original 289, the examiner wanted to do a cat test! I have an email from Ford over in the states which was submitted but did not find it's way to the test centre! Does any one have experience of how to prove the age of the engine. It appears that the casting number being referenced to books etc is not enough!

[Roger King]

Seems unreasonable - on any car I have submitted for test (or registration) I have shown the tester the casting numbers (actually a photo of the block, as the number's hard to get to!) and cross-referenced it with a copy of Tom Monro's 'How to build small-block Ford' book.
All testers I have encountered have been happy enough with this - not sure what else you can do!
You have shown him the number on the block, and you have shown him the reference document - what else CAN you do? The number can't be changed easily, the donor car presumably carries that date too - is there an appeals pathway?

[Karl]

I had the stamped engine number, not the casting, and a letter from Ford Detroit. The last eight characters from the VIN of the car where the engine was originally fitted are stamped on the engine block and from this number they could tell exactly the year of built. But this was in SVA times, maybe things have changed.
Karl

[StewbieC]

I just printed the mail out that I got from Ford in the US. The tester was fine with that.
I did take Tom Monroes book with me too but he said the mail was proof enough and he didn't need to see the book.
I found the tester at Birmingham to be very fair and knew his stuff. He did most of the IVA's at the Birmingham test centre and knew it was a Ford engine when I opened the bonnet.
As long as there is plausible evidence they should be fine.

[Roger King]

I had the stamped engine number, not the casting, and a letter from Ford Detroit. The last eight characters from the VIN of the car where the engine was originally fitted are stamped on the engine block and from this number they could tell exactly the year of built. But this was in SVA times, maybe things have changed.
Karl

Not on a 289, they're not - the only individual engine number is an aluminium tag stuck under one of the intake bolts*. Was yours a 302, Karl?


*which is very easily fabricated, maybe they'd accept that? Again, see Monro's book for this info.

[clive]

I think the issue of engine age has changed recently due to a batch of "reproduction" Chevy blocks imported from Mexico. This unfortunately is a prime example of how bending the rules by a minority can have an adverse effect on the majority.

[Karl]

Right Roger, it is a 302 block!

[Roger King]

I think the issue of engine age has changed recently due to a batch of "reproduction" Chevy blocks imported from Mexico. This unfortunately is a prime example of how bending the rules by a minority can have an adverse effect on the majority.

It's not just kit cars, it's having an effect on all classics as well. My Mini will be subject to scrutiny as the original Cooper 998 is being replaced by an age-correct 1275 'S'.

I suspect the issue is primarily around taxation, and the dodging thereof.

[CobStang]

At my recent IVA all seemed OK but we got held up on proof of engine age. I have a C5AE casting of an original 289, the examiner wanted to do a cat test! I have an email from Ford over in the states which was submitted but did not find it's way to the test centre! Does any one have experience of how to prove the age of the engine. It appears that the casting number being referenced to books etc is not enough!

The C5AE -6015-E number on your block is an engineering number not a cast date.
It is the smaller numbers next to it which will tell you the actual date the block was cast.
Eg 5 C 27 Decodes to
5= 1965
C= March
27 = 27th
Cast on 27th March 1965.
The C5AE engineering number ran thru to 1967.
The date the engine was assembled is on a pad in front of the LH side cyl head,
These date codes are on most other castings, on the heads they are next to the rocker posts.

[Nick Lowe]

Thx, I now have a letter from Ford and fingers crossed this will do ythe trick. Failing that I think we are into expert witness stuff!