What's next??

289, FIA & Daytona topics
Paul Blore
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Re: What's next??

Post by Paul Blore »

I think your comment needs qualifying Roger. When you refer to a "Ford", that should be "Ford 260-289-302". Big blocks, specifically the FE's, like plenty of oil and higher pressure and I'm not aware of any drain-back issues.

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Roger King
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Re: What's next??

Post by Roger King »

Depends on your big-block!!!

To quote Ladd Fowler:

'This elusive and complex balance between pressure, flow, materials, and clearance was worked on by many prominent engine builders of the ‘60’s and ‘70’s. It was most notably codified by Smokey Yunick in his “10 lbs of pressure for every 1000 RPM” statement. This guideline has taken on far more credence than current day engineering might indicate is needed. In a December 2000 address at the Superflow AETC Richard Maskin was asked what oil pressure his ProStock engines developed by a competitor who said he was having bearing trouble at 95 lbs pressure in the 9000 RPM range. Richard replied his national record holding small block engines ran 35 lbs of pressure at above 10,000 RPM and his big block engines had 5 lbs more. Reference AETC 11-13. Technology advances in the 16 years since then have not mandated higher oil pressures, although many people and teams routinely set up engines for 65 lbs maximum pressure. In my opinion they are giving up power output advantages to be had at lower pressures when other modifications allow that set up.'

All a bit academic and OT for us, though, I think...
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Re: What's next??

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I think we're probably comparing apples with bananas. :lol:

I was told many years ago by someone who was involved with the Ford GT40 program that the Le Mans winning Mk.II GT40's actually ran with Chevy crankshafts in them. Apparently the big-end journals on the Ford cranks are too big in diameter and at high engine speeds the relative surface speeds between the crank and conrods exceeded the shear strength of the oils available at the time, so they used Chevy cranks which used a smaller diameter big-end.

It was kept very hush-hush at the time for obvious reasons.
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Re: What's next??

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clive wrote:At Silverstone this year, Tony Mountain introduced me to his better half as "The only man whose car he had been in that had three gauges reading 120." Water temp, oil temp and speed!

Image
Clive,

I recall seeing this picture posted elsewhere, probably in Facebook, but it got me wondering if there was any particular reason why you'd installed your toggle switches upside down to the standard convention. Was it purely personal preference?

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Roger King
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Re: What's next??

Post by Roger King »

Wow, 120°C water temp at 120mph? Might want to check there isn't a hose collapsing at high revs somewhere, or a partially-blocked rad...

There is a well known issue with SBFs, in that the typical repro high volume water pump actually cavitates more at high revs than a stock water pump impeller. The stock hipo water pump wasn't so bad, but the repros have a lot more vanes on the impeller than even the hipo did. This means that with a multi-vaned modern impeller cooling efficiency can actually drop at higher revs - this was well known in original Cobras, even to some extent with the hipo pump. As you went faster, the engine temp went up instead of down. This can give problems when you come to a stop, as the engine is already hot but now has no airflow through the rad and a less-than-perfect water pump impeller design.
I reverted to the stock pump in my car as it worked far better at higher rpm, and also moved the more viscous Evans around more effectively. I've now got a period sixties hipo pump in it, which gives the best compromise - but finding these is easier said than done.

Just a thought on the toggles - I think it depends on the car. Standard for Minis and BMC is up for off, yet Jaguar have down for off. My Jensen was also up for off. Bit hard to say what's right for Ace and Cobra as they had rotary switches, but I think the Aceca had a couple of toggles which were up for off.
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Re: What's next??

Post by Paul Blore »

427 Cobras used a combination of toggle & rotary switches and every original dashboard I've seen has them installed with down for off.

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Roger King
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Re: What's next??

Post by Roger King »

Probably different then. The photos of Russ Swift's car (CS2030) on the ACOC thread show a couple of toggle switches which were apparently original (not convinced!) which are up for off. They were all built in sheds and are all different...

...just had a look for 427 dashes and you're right, most seem to be parked 'down'. There's a fair bit of variation though, with a fair few showing 'up' for off, and a good number with a mixture of both!!!
Last edited by Roger King on Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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clive
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Re: What's next??

Post by clive »

Paul Blore wrote:427 Cobras used a combination of toggle & rotary switches and every original dashboard I've seen has them installed with down for off.

Paul
But mine isn't a 427 and after all this is a 289 website!
Cheers, Clive.

(If I'm not here I'm in my workshop or on the golf course!)
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Re: What's next??

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clive wrote:But mine isn't a 427 and after all this is a 289 website!
Agreed, but you would assume that AC followed the same convention over from the 289 cars rather than flipping them over.

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Roger King
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Re: What's next??

Post by Roger King »

clive wrote:
Paul Blore wrote:427 Cobras used a combination of toggle & rotary switches and every original dashboard I've seen has them installed with down for off.

Paul
But mine isn't a 427 and after all this is a 289 website!
At risk of sounding very cheeky, Clive, then yours should be rotary.....
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