The Government consultation is now out

289, FIA & Daytona topics
peterc
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Re: The Government consultation is now out

Post by peterc » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:11 pm

Stewie ,
My car was SVA'd and correctly registered as a Hawk 289FIA. The V5 duly shows Oct 1999 to match the test date.
They were going to issue me the old plate or one of equivalent age of the donor but I had just purchased a suitable '64 plate which the were happy to allocate.
I was querying the mods since 1988 issue and 15% increase in power issues but if you think that once it has been SVA'd it's covered then I should be OK.
Peter C

DavidP
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Re: The Government consultation is now out

Post by DavidP » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:41 pm

Blast, more questions arise....
Last edited by DavidP on Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

peterc
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Re: The Government consultation is now out

Post by peterc » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:25 pm

Sorry David I don't understand you comment 'dual modelled'
Peter C

peterc
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Re: The Government consultation is now out

Post by peterc » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:15 am

I'm guessing that you mean with MGB front and a Jag rear. If it was modified since 1988 then I can only assume that means it would have to be re tested and probably get a Q plate. It raises another question - as the IVA rules have changed over the years would the car then need to comply with all the protrusion rules. Correct dashboard and steering wheel, no racing style fuel filler, rear light angles of vision etc etc.the list goes on.
I think the regs will need far more careful reading to see what the end result will be.

Some guy who has just bolted a super charger to the front of his 1932 Bentley to get it to go faster in classic racing might now be in for a tough time and has devalued his car big time getting a Q plate.
How many Sierra Cosworths boast at least 50% more BHP than when they left the factory.
Then of course there are the brand new re created lightweight E types. It might be on an old allocated chassis number but can't be historic as it's only just been made, so 'modified' since 1988.
The mind boggles.

I think these new rules will stifle any remaining engineers who had good ideas of making cars go faster and more safely. If it doesn't come from a major manufacturer it won't be acceptable soon. It used to be wonderful in the sixties seeing what mods car nuts could come up with both on and off the race track.
Peter C
Last edited by peterc on Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

peterc
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Re: The Government consultation is now out

Post by peterc » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:50 am

David,
Current advice from another member says that providing you can still muster the 8 points needed to define whether it's a radically altered vehicle of not then you stay as you are. I am assuming that the car is already IVA'd.
If you open the link that Nige posted and go into registering the vehicle and then radically altered cars it shows the number of points per item. As I see it they amalgamate front and rear as one subject so if you have changed to a Jag rear then you lose 4 points, two for the axle and two for the suspension regardless of the front still being MGB.
Hope that helps.
Peter C

DavidA
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Re: The Government consultation is now out

Post by DavidA » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:16 am

Thank you for some well thought through summaries. It is difficult to work out whether the intention is simply to tighten up the rules on tax free 'historics' or to shake up all the law surrounding the registration and use of modified vehicles.
My feeling is it probably started out as the former but in the process some anomalies came to light which the legislators could not ignore including highly modified vehicles with few old componenents having tax free status.
The problem is there could be significant unintended consequences as legislators seek to put the cat back in the bag.
In particular a lot of vehicles that are perfectly safe for road use could effectively be outlawed as they could not pass an isva test - a Q plate could be the least of their problems.
At worst this could catch all pre isva kit cars .
However I am thinking/hoping the guns will end up being aimed at cars still registered as mgb's or open top jaguars using the original log book when they are clearly something else.In the late 80's this was standard practice encouraged by kit car manufacturers.
I originally went down this route then (when rumours of a general tightening up were rife) had my car inspected at a central tax office (in the 1990's) to confirm it contained the required number of original components.This inspection was not particularly rigorous . The car was then registered as a BRA 289 and allocated a new number to apply to the chassis (so they knew it was a new chassis) which I duly did and had signed off by my local mot station.I do not believe isva testing was an option at this time.
The practical implementation of the new legislation is going to be interesting- it will presumably all be self certification if 'historics' do not require an MOT so ironically someone with a highly modified vehicle can ignore it all and now not be subject to even a basic safety test. Problems will only arise on sale, when subject to police check (appearance and registration don't match sir) or worst case when there is an accident and insurers seek to avoid liability.
I am hoping the modifications since 1988 implies since registration but this is not clear. What seems inevitable is that there will continue to be grey areas after the new legislation is in place .
My cynical view based on experience in other areas is that representations to consultations at any stage make no difference to what emerges.in one case I was involved in virtually all representations opposed legislation and it still went ahead unchanged.
I have read nothing other than on the this forum about what is proposed.
Best Wishes
DavidA

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Roger King
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Re: The Government consultation is now out

Post by Roger King » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:25 am

It has nothing to do with the UK govt - but it has everything to do with the European Roadworthiness Directive, and our compliance with this. As ever, EU law overrules UK law, so all bets are off regarding back-dating etc.

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