DfT Roadworthiness Consultative Document

[Roger King]

A few years back, a German mate of mine had to retrofit cats to his '65 Healey 3000...

[nikbj68]

Yes... All joking aside, some of the options suggested could be terrible; 1500km(or even 1500 miles for that matter) would mean no more Tuscany road trips, Scotland to Silverstone, or more than just half a years' worth of popping out for the papers!

[peterc]

My normal approach is to assume a conspiracy theory that there is another agenda hidden in their proposals but I'm not sure they think that far ahead. Decisions are knee jerk reactions to the current needs to comply with EU law again. Unfortunately this does then set a precedent for future amendments that will push us all into a corner. The UK currently has a fair set of rules for classics and also keeps a big industry actively employed. Yes we chose what mileage we do and get insurance to cover it accordingly but if they push through small mileages then many classics will be confined to the garage.
Maybe they have spoken to classic car investors who never drive their cars.
Can we guess what provision they would provide for allowing you to drive you classic more. A suitably chunk of money for VED and as Roger suggested converting the car to meet today's emissions?
Peter C

[nikbj68]

...Maybe they have spoken to classic car investors who never drive their cars...Peter C

Or London to Brighton Runners...
I think the current system is 'fit for purpose', although I don`t like the pre-1960 exemption.

[Fireball]

does a car legally need an odometer......?

[Roger King]

My normal approach is to assume a conspiracy theory that there is another agenda hidden in their proposals but I'm not sure they think that far ahead. Decisions are knee jerk reactions to the current needs to comply with EU law again. Unfortunately this does then set a precedent for future amendments that will push us all into a corner. The UK currently has a fair set of rules for classics and also keeps a big industry actively employed. Yes we chose what mileage we do and get insurance to cover it accordingly but if they push through small mileages then many classics will be confined to the garage.
Maybe they have spoken to classic car investors who never drive their cars.
Can we guess what provision they would provide for allowing you to drive you classic more. A suitably chunk of money for VED and as Roger suggested converting the car to meet today's emissions?
Peter C

Peter, there's not necessarily a hidden agenda (note - I'm not saying there isn't - this is government, after all), more likely a poorly-thought-through 'catch-all' piece of legislation which has unforeseen knock-on effects on other groups. As you say, a huge industry, pretty much unique to the UK, would be affected and the values of useable classics would plummet.
A friend in France used to have the option: either 1) register as historic, and get a tax exemption but with a mileage limitation and a restriction on where it could be driven (I think only within the same département unless prior permission gained), or 2) register the same car under a normal taxation class, pay the full tax but have unlimited mileage. As far as I know both needed a test. I don't know if this is still the case in France - I believe they may have relaxed this somewhat. To me this seems eminently sensible and a good model to follow.

As far as converting to current requirements are concerned, good luck with your Rover! Completely impossible to get a carburetted Ford V8 through modern emissions. My friend in Germany with the Healey was, in effect, buying new cats each test as once in contact with unburnt fuel they are wrecked. I'm sure Karl could give more info on that, I may well have it all wrong - it must be 20 years ago and my memory is... what did I come on this forum for?

[Karl]

Roger, there is no need to put catalytic converters in vehicles which have historic status in Germany. If your car has no H-registration you can use cats to put your car in a better emmission class, read you pay less tax and might get the green sticker which allows you to drive in low emmission zones.
Special unregulated race cats must also be used in rallye cars when using the official roads. They are mostly just fitted to the end of the exhaust system and glow very nice when it is dark, but this is Motorsport regulations. A catalytic converter only makes sense with a lamb.a sensor and electronic fuel injection.

[Roger King]

Yes, for some reason he couldn't get historic registration. It was so long ago I don't remember the details, things may have changed.
So, in Germany, if you have historic registration do you have unlimited use and reduced road taxation? Same as us?

[Karl]

For a historic registered motorcar you pay, no matter what engine capacity, 191€ road tax per year. From the government there is no limit how much you travel with the car but the insurance cost is more or less depending on how many km you want to do. Also storage, driver, area, same as in the UK.

[Roger King]

FBHVC response now published:

http://www.fbhvc.co.uk/legislation-and- ... ultations/

Click 'response' on the right.

On the whole I think FBHVC have got the response right, but whether anyone will bother to read it or not is another matter.

Roger