T289R Sussex Downs Road Trip - 2018

[Colin Newbold]

Social Run:

'A non-competitive run for likeminded participants where there is no other purpose than the camaraderie of motoring in company to a predetermined point and which is not within the jurisdiction of the MSA'.

The MSA Yearbook (2017 edition), (B) Nomenclature and Definitions, p.60

That looks pretty convincing to me Roger. Thank you for the clarification. Let's see if the MSA reply to me with similar words.

Colin

[Roger King]

Social Run:

'A non-competitive run for likeminded participants where there is no other purpose than the camaraderie of motoring in company to a predetermined point and which is not within the jurisdiction of the MSA'.

The MSA Yearbook (2017 edition), (B) Nomenclature and Definitions, p.60

That looks pretty convincing to me Roger. Thank you for the clarification. Let's see if the MSA reply to me with similar words.

Colin

Sensible to see what they say, as the somewhat ambiguous wording seems to leave it up to the organiser of the social run to decide whether or not it is within the jurisdiction of the MSA or not!
Still, that's what it says in my shiny new copy of this year's regs. That particular paragraph is a recent change, too, from 2014. I'm talking to the ECTC directors tomorrow so I'll try to find out how the Spring- and EuroClassics work it, as they aim for 30 cars (maybe more) for both. They are definitely Touring Assemblies, but I don't think they're very much more onerous to run. The cost per car is only two or three quid.

[catsx11]

.

[Paul Blore]

Agreed, that is much clearer and I'm happy with that.

The original PDF document was ambiguous but that is much clearer.

If you read the definition of a "Touring Assembly" in isolation of the "Social Run" definition, one or more of the points do apply to our runs, which would, apparently, therefore require a CoE. I accept that we operate a Social Run, but I'm still unclear in my own mind as to precisely why it is such irrespective of the number of cars.

My role in this is to safeguard the interests of the club, its committee and its members. I wasn't intending to be or wanting to be a kill-joy.

Thank you Roger.

[Colin Newbold]

I promised to share with you the (very rapid!) response from my contact at the MSA:

"Hi Colin,

Unfortunately as The 289 Register are not an MSA Registered Club they do not fall under our remit, therefore they would not need to apply for Permits from the MSA.

As a non-competitive event on the public highway, you are also not limited to 12 vehicles and do not need to apply for Route Authorisation either. For more information please visit the Route Authorisation page/FAQ on the MSA website:
https://www.msauk.org/Resource-Centre/R ... horisation

Kind Regards

James Tattersall
Competitions & Clubs Administrator
Motor Sports Association, Riverside Park, Colnbrook, SL3 0HG"

I believe, ladies and gentlemen, that this clarifies the situation ONCE AND FOR ALL! I therefore propose, with the Chairman's agreement, to draw a line under the 'legalities' discussion and welcome one and all (up to 20 cars) to our Sussex Down Road Trip, May 2018. The favoured weekend seems to be:

Friday 11th May (arrival any time in the afternoon/early evening) ...
...until...
...Monday 14th May (departure after breakfast).

I should be able to get one hotel for all three nights (11/12/13) on a dinner, bed and breakfast basis.

As already posted, I'm already up to 19 provisional sign-ups so there's room for just one more car. Tomorrow (or over the weekend) I will publish a provisional list of participants in our "Touring Assembly/Social Tour".

Hooray!!

Colin

[peterc]

Hi Guys,
The important difference with our events are that there is no reward of any variety to the entrants for completing the route in a prescribed time, collecting clues or driving the shortest distance. The route guidance notes are merely there to help the entrants get to another place of interest for us to continue our socialising.
I am glad we feel that there is a way forward.
If Paul is happy with the interpretation of the wording do we still need to write to the MSA?
Peter C

[Colin Newbold]

If Paul is happy with the interpretation of the wording do we still need to write to the MSA?
Peter C

Not as far as I can see Peter. We're free to do our own thing.

[David Large]

It strikes me T289R is better off not being a member of the MSA.
I am a member as I have a competition licence and the blue book that comes out each year is an absolute minefield to understand with regard to regulations for cars.
In the speed hillclimb world it has recently been turned upside down for members who compete in small single seaters such as Jedi cars. They are all having to have their rollover hoops replaced despite having been acceptable for years.
I am waiting to see if my Radical will be ok - although I suspect it will, one never knows.

david

[Colin Newbold]

In the speed hillclimb world it has recently been turned upside down for members who compete in small single seaters such as Jedi cars. They are all having to have their rollover hoops replaced despite having been acceptable for years.
david

You'll remember David that racers with 289s and Aces had the same problem a couple of years ago? In reality, it actually only applied to open top racers (and some with the 'bubble' hardtops) because by that time almost every Cobra (and some Aces) ran a Le Mans style hardtop anyway, and like my MGB they had already built in a full cage underneath the hardtop. Despite that however, the ACOC campaigned on behalf of members and eventually had that ruling overturned (if you'll excuse the pun ).

Colin

[Paul Blore]

If Paul is happy with the interpretation of the wording do we still need to write to the MSA?
Peter C

Not as far as I'm concerned now.

Good result and thank you to everyone for their constructive help in clearing this up.

Paul