Correct voltage regulator

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Marsh
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Correct voltage regulator

Post by Marsh »

Dear all

I would like to fit a period correct voltage regulator to my car and from research, this would appear to be an Autolite C5AF, which are available in the UK for around £40 delivered. Is this the correct type and is there anything else I should be looking for as I'm a little inexperienced in matters electrical?

Best regards

Lee
427 'side oiler' in 1965 Street trim
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Roger King
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Re: Correct voltage regulator

Post by Roger King »

What alternator are you using, Lee? That will dictate to some extent which VR you need. I don't know what the 427s used - the 289s used an Autolite for which you will need to get the correct date code. There are companies in the US who can supply that for you. Can you get the correct mounting bracketry? There is one guy in California who is making the cast brackets for 289s, but they are not cheap at $550 or thereabouts. Again I don't know what the 427s used - I'm sure there are billet aluminium rod arrangements available, but I doubt that will be good enough for you! According to Dan Case, long-time Cobra owner and serious expert on originality, the 427 used a large fan and sheave assembly on the alternator which is likely to be very tricky to find. It depends how accurate you want to be regarding originality - welcome to my world!

Another thought - how are you wiring your car? If it's a 427 as sold in the US it will need the Ford harness, with Ford terminals to match the componentry, including the VR plug. If it's a UK-market car (Surrey registration??) it will need to be a Lucas harness (same as the MkIII), but did they market 427s over here? Neither of those harnesses will pass an IVA test, though. The usual way around this is to get through the test then remove the harness and rewire the way you want it.

The wiring harness is a bit of a minefield. If you are planning to use the Autolite alternator with external VR, ammeter and ignition warning light, there is no harness available in the UK for that combination. Autosparks will sell you one for a Lucas ACR alternator with internal regulator, or possibly one for an earlier Lucas alternator with external VR, but the wiring for that will be different from the Autolite setup. I can point you towards some original wiring diagrams which might help but you might end up effectively building your own harness, or heavily modifying a proprietary one. Again, though, you will have to be mindful of the IVA requirements - brake fluid warning lights, hazard lights, side repeaters, immobiliser etc. - none of which feature in an original Cobra harness.
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amulheirn
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Re: Correct voltage regulator

Post by amulheirn »

There's some wiring loom info on the Wiki already - possibly put there by you, Roger: http://wiki.the289register.com/doku.php ... iring-loom

From my perspective, I was planning to hide Gerry's loom as best I can, putting relays etc under the dash like Stu did. Once through IVA, I would apply some smoke and mirrors to fake the original loom - just good enough to fool most viewers would be good enough. That's a way off though.
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amulheirn
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Re: Correct voltage regulator

Post by amulheirn »

There's some wiring loom info on the Wiki already - possibly put there by you, Roger: http://wiki.the289register.com/doku.php ... iring-loom

From my perspective, I was planning to hide Gerry's loom as best I can, putting relays etc under the dash like Stu did. Once through IVA, I would apply some smoke and mirrors to fake the original loom - just good enough to fool most viewers would be good enough. That's a way off though.
Marsh
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Re: Correct voltage regulator

Post by Marsh »

Gentlemen - thank you; clearly lots more to consider here than I had anticipated...

I'll speak to Mr Brookes and take some counsel. I suspect I'll be back with more questions than answers!

Lee
427 'side oiler' in 1965 Street trim
IainS
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Re: Correct voltage regulator

Post by IainS »

amulheirn wrote:There's some wiring loom info on the Wiki already - possibly put there by you, Roger: http://wiki.the289register.com/doku.php ... iring-loom

From my perspective, I was planning to hide Gerry's loom as best I can, putting relays etc under the dash like Stu did. Once through IVA, I would apply some smoke and mirrors to fake the original loom - just good enough to fool most viewers would be good enough. That's a way off though.
Andy, I used Gerry's loom and it is possible to make it almost invisible under the bonnet. I too have the relays/fuses under the dash (but note they do fail and are more tricky to get to) but more discrete still is changing the way the positives on the loom are intended to connect to the starter. The loom simply uses the starter as a convenient binding post, but I mounted a binding post on the inside bulkhead (to the left) and doubled these cables back on themselves and back through the hole in the bulkhead, along the inside of the bulkhead to the new binding post. You wil have to run a new starter solenoid cable back to the starter but I ran this alongside the starter cable which exits through the transmission tunnel to the starter.

I have my battery isolator mounted adjacent to this binding post so making is easy to connect the ammeter. I then pushed the front harness up under the lip between wheel arch and body until it exits at the front to feed the lights/fans etc. My set up is not authentic because as said you have to look very carefully to see any of the loom, but I like the clean appearance unde the bonnet. Just a thought.

Iain
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Roger King
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Re: Correct voltage regulator

Post by Roger King »

All the main positives for battery, starter, fuse supply etc. would originally be connected to the positive terminal on the 4-terminal Ford solenoid, mounted on the top of the passenger's footbox for a COB car.
I guess there's nothing to stop you hiding Gerry's harness completely and making up a mock harness to sit around the engine bay to mimic an original - it just depends how anal you wish to be.

Lee - this is just the beginning, mate. Once you start trying to get more 'original', you start on an exponential curve plotting expenditure against originality. And there are no prices for guessing how the axes of that curve are labelled! I can assure you that a serious attempt at originality with a Kirkham works out a lot more expensive than a MkIV or CRS would have been. But, of course, much more original.
Marsh
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Re: Correct voltage regulator

Post by Marsh »

Roger King wrote:All the main positives for battery, starter, fuse supply etc. would originally be connected to the positive terminal on the 4-terminal Ford solenoid, mounted on the top of the passenger's footbox for a COB car.
I guess there's nothing to stop you hiding Gerry's harness completely and making up a mock harness to sit around the engine bay to mimic an original - it just depends how anal you wish to be.

Lee - this is just the beginning, mate. Once you start trying to get more 'original', you start on an exponential curve plotting expenditure against originality. And there are no prices for guessing how the axes of that curve are labelled! I can assure you that a serious attempt at originality with a Kirkham works out a lot more expensive than a MkIV or CRS would have been. But, of course, much more original.
Oh Roger I'm only just beginning to realise! This is actually a 'good thing', as it will ensure that the car becomes a long term commitment and hopefully a life's work, rather than something that comes and goes within a short space of time. I dropped by to see the car yesterday and it's hard to be anything other that blown away by what's achieved up in Talke.

What is already becoming clear is that I initially thought that the car would be 'finished' when it's delivered late spring, but will actually be closer to the beginning of an originality journey rather than at the end, as there is just so much to consider.

We need to talk paint at some point, as you and Paul appear to be aligned on a variation of dark red; which is difficult to ignore. :D

Now, about those dark gold wheels...

L
427 'side oiler' in 1965 Street trim
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Roger King
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Re: Correct voltage regulator

Post by Roger King »

Hmmm...
I think paint may be a bit lower down the priorities than you think! You really need to have a gameplan. Is it your intention to get it through IVA then start looking at making it more 'original'? If so, you have to think about certain elements of the build and how you will plan to change (or reverse) them. Or you may take the more pragmatic approach of getting it as close as you reasonably can in IVA form. Others can tell you more than I can about IVA, but it will require different lighting, dashboard (instrument positioning), steering wheel, electrical harness, pedals (I think), wheel spinners, master cylinder reservoirs, exhaust (depending on how loud you want the finished product), seat belt mounting points, windscreen surround (possibly best IVA'd with no windscreen fitted), grille needed... the list goes on. I'd IVA it first, then do the various mods, then paint it. I'm sure you can discuss all this with Dave, if you haven't already, as I'm sure he will have some answers.
We can discuss this 'off-forum' sometime.
Marsh
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Re: Correct voltage regulator

Post by Marsh »

You're right Roger.

The car will be IVA'd by Dave and then in reality, that's where the work starts!

We've agreed that the car will be IVA'd unpainted and then twill come to me. I will get it painted by the chaps who painted my previous car and we'll go from there. Truth be told, whilst I aim to give the car a period and authentic appearance, I won't go anywhere near the levels you have with your 289 as I just don't have the knowledge, application or indeed the infinite patience that you do.

I genuinely see the car as a long term project and this year's phase is to see it on the road and gaining gentle patina, while I search out original parts to incorporate into the build, longer term.

Lee
427 'side oiler' in 1965 Street trim
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