Sourcing a ready built Ford V8 and T5 Transmission

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Roger King
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Re: Sourcing a ready built Ford V8 and T5 Transmission

Post by Roger King » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:55 pm

I would buy a complete, used 302 motor. Taking it apart teaches you a lot about how it goes back together. Look in Classic American (a British) magazine or on ebay for UK sources.
302 definitely the way to go. 289s are getting harder to find, and apart from tiny details are exactly the same block. No difference in the power output between building a 289 or a 302 from the block - the only relevant difference is the crank. 289s have a shorter throw than 302s, hence the smaller capacity. 289 cranks are not available new and hard to find in good order secondhand. There is also the slight, but fairly easily overcome, matter of 5-bolt 289 (which all Cobras had originally, rare and hard to find even in the US) or the much more common 6-bolt 289 ('bolt' refers to the number of bolts holding the bellhousing to the block. By which, obviously, the early 289 (and all 260) blocks were completely different from the later 289s and the 302s, which are the same as each other. With me so far? As to hipos, forget it. The only difference between the major parts of a hipo and a 'normal' 289 were down to selective assembly, with blocks that passed the test being selected to be built as hipos. There were detail differences in the heads, which you are unlikely to use anyway - an Edelbrock head out of the box will give far more power than a hipo - and bits like an extra balance weight hidden behind the timing cover which mandated the use of a thinner timing chain set. The only possible reason for using this lot would be for pure originality, which you cannot achieve with a Hawk (this is emphatically NOT a criticism or judgement of any kind. Many will know that I personally consider Gerry's car to be a superior development of the original). Also - if you really want originality under the bonnet, it has to be 5-bolt hipo. Pretty much impossible to find unless you want to spend some very serious dosh stateside. You will not find one over here for sale.
Have fun!

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clive
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Re: Sourcing a ready built Ford V8 and T5 Transmission

Post by clive » Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:00 am

This has just appeared on The Dark Side...

http://www.cobraclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54876
Cheers, Clive.

(If I'm not here I'm in my workshop or on the golf course!)

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Roger King
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Re: Sourcing a ready built Ford V8 and T5 Transmission

Post by Roger King » Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:28 am

Could well be worth a look. A few things to think about with this one: I don't know for sure, but I don't think an air gap manifold would fit under a 289 bonnet, so may need to change for Edelbrock Performer dual plane. You would need to know cam specs, which seller says he will post. If it is suitable you would need to know that it has been broken in properly, as any amount of 'additives' will not break the cam in - it's a physical process, 20 mins at 2000-2500 rpm the moment the engine first fires from rebuild. There are no carb specs - resist the temptation to over-carb! 600 is the max size for a 289/302. Demon's 575 Mighty Sportsman was the perfect carb for these engines but I don't think the 'new' Demon carbs are making it since the original company folded. For road use I would go with an Edelbrock Performer manual choke carb. If it's the right T5 it would be a good price for the whole kit.

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Re: Sourcing a ready built Ford V8 and T5 Transmission

Post by CobStang » Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:40 pm

Roger King wrote:As to hipos, forget it. The only difference between the major parts of a hipo and a 'normal' 289 were down to selective assembly, with blocks that passed the test being selected to be built as hipos. There were detail differences in the heads, which you are unlikely to use anyway and bits like an extra balance weight hidden behind the timing cover which mandated the use of a thinner timing chain set. The only possible reason for using this lot would be for pure originality,
The 289 HiPo is a rare beast and was designed to rev.
The blocks were inspected to a higher level as stated and were fitted with unique thicker main bearing caps, the cranks were cast using a higher nodular iron and an area was polished for inspection, the heads had cast in valve spring seats and screw in rocker studs a opposed to push in studs, double valve springs were used, the camshaft was of higher lift and ran solid lifters, the cam chain was narrower before this became the norm to allow the use of an extra unique counterweight on the front of the crank - in order to balance the rods which used larger bolts than standard, the engine was externally balanced to 30.4 oz as opposed to 28 oz, this meant the use of a unique flywheel and crank shaft dampener, the engine had a unique manual choke Autolite 4100 carb, a unique fuel pump with an extra return spring for the lever, a unique non vac dual point distributor.......

Come on Roger this is slightly more than selective assembly !

Yes you can easily build a more powerful engine and cheaper but a 289 HiPo carries a lot of kudos 8)
Early B.R.A. Warmed 3.9 Rover, 5 sp, 3.07 rear, Fully adjustable front suspension with AVO coilovers, 4 link rear suspension AVO coilovers and Panhard bar, Big 2 pot front calipers, rear discs, servo'd, adjustable front / rear bias, scruffy paint job !

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Roger King
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Re: Sourcing a ready built Ford V8 and T5 Transmission

Post by Roger King » Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:18 am

CobStang wrote:
Roger King wrote:As to hipos, forget it. The only difference between the major parts of a hipo and a 'normal' 289 were down to selective assembly, with blocks that passed the test being selected to be built as hipos. There were detail differences in the heads, which you are unlikely to use anyway and bits like an extra balance weight hidden behind the timing cover which mandated the use of a thinner timing chain set. The only possible reason for using this lot would be for pure originality,
The 289 HiPo is a rare beast and was designed to rev.
The blocks were inspected to a higher level as stated and were fitted with unique thicker main bearing caps, the cranks were cast using a higher nodular iron and an area was polished for inspection, the heads had cast in valve spring seats and screw in rocker studs a opposed to push in studs, double valve springs were used, the camshaft was of higher lift and ran solid lifters, the cam chain was narrower before this became the norm to allow the use of an extra unique counterweight on the front of the crank - in order to balance the rods which used larger bolts than standard, the engine was externally balanced to 30.4 oz as opposed to 28 oz, this meant the use of a unique flywheel and crank shaft dampener, the engine had a unique manual choke Autolite 4100 carb, a unique fuel pump with an extra return spring for the lever, a unique non vac dual point distributor.......

Come on Roger this is slightly more than selective assembly !

Yes you can easily build a more powerful engine and cheaper but a 289 HiPo carries a lot of kudos 8)
Didn't want to bore with details... sorry, I didn't word it well. I guess my point was that the starting point was the block, which was selected out of the production run and not designated hipo when it was cast!

Mark's exactly right, as ever. But I think for a replica car you'd have to be madder than me to go to all that very expensive and completely invisible trouble inside the motor, unless you find the holy grail of a motor that already has it. Carb, distributor, etc. yes...
...and yes, big kudos for a hipo, but it really needs to be a 5-bolt block, unless you are building an automatic trans car.* The bellhousing is visible...


*now that would be different.

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Re: Sourcing a ready built Ford V8 and T5 Transmission

Post by CobStang » Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:29 pm

You have talked me into it .......... uprated C4 trans wanted to go with my 6 bolt HiPo
Who needs all that to and fro with a stick anyway :roll:
Early B.R.A. Warmed 3.9 Rover, 5 sp, 3.07 rear, Fully adjustable front suspension with AVO coilovers, 4 link rear suspension AVO coilovers and Panhard bar, Big 2 pot front calipers, rear discs, servo'd, adjustable front / rear bias, scruffy paint job !

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Roger King
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Re: Sourcing a ready built Ford V8 and T5 Transmission

Post by Roger King » Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:50 pm

CobStang wrote:You have talked me into it .......... uprated C4 trans wanted to go with my 6 bolt HiPo
Who needs all that to and fro with a stick anyway :roll:
You'd have a very rare car - they only built 15 auto 289 Cobras! They did indeed get some version of high-performance C4.

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