BUT...
AC were the manufacturers of ALL of the original Cobras, and it was their chassis numbering system, so shouldn't Shelby (or Kirkham/NDM/ or whoever...)have their own...?
Only a Shelby built at Thames Ditton with a CSX number is a real one!!!
AC Heritage's new cobra
- nikbj68
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Re: AC Heritage's new cobra
Hawk 289 FiA...AT LAST!!!
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Re: AC Heritage's new cobra
I can say that Kirkham have their own chassis numbering system.
Shelby was a great self-publicist and frequently rewrote the facts to suit his own version of reality. It is a fact that the Cobra as we know it wouldn't have existed if not for Shelby, but to claim that AC were nothing more than a minority player in the Cobra story is disingenuous in the extreme.
With the 289, Ford was little more than an enthusiastic parts supplier, but that changed with the 427 as they were largely responsible for the design of the new Mk.III chassis and AC's role was correspondingly diminished as a result.
Paul
Shelby was a great self-publicist and frequently rewrote the facts to suit his own version of reality. It is a fact that the Cobra as we know it wouldn't have existed if not for Shelby, but to claim that AC were nothing more than a minority player in the Cobra story is disingenuous in the extreme.
With the 289, Ford was little more than an enthusiastic parts supplier, but that changed with the 427 as they were largely responsible for the design of the new Mk.III chassis and AC's role was correspondingly diminished as a result.
Paul
- nikbj68
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Re: AC Heritage's new cobra
AC's role was not very diminished, they still built every Mk.III in entirety(minus drivetrain, of course, as per 260/289). They didn't design the Ace(and therefore by extension, the Cobra) chassis either, merely adapted John Tojeiro's, so I don't see a huge difference myself.Paul Blore wrote:Ford... were largely responsible for the design of the new Mk.III chassis and AC's role was correspondingly diminished as a result.
Hawk 289 FiA...AT LAST!!!
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Re: AC Heritage's new cobra
I said "correspondingly" Nik, not "completely".
Tojeiro's involvement pre-dated Shelby's, so the Mk.II chassis came as part and parcel with AC's involvement, so who designed it is irrelevant in this context.
Whereas the Mk.III chassis was designed by Ford at Dearborn and that wouldn't have happened if not for Shelby's involvement.
Paul
Tojeiro's involvement pre-dated Shelby's, so the Mk.II chassis came as part and parcel with AC's involvement, so who designed it is irrelevant in this context.
Whereas the Mk.III chassis was designed by Ford at Dearborn and that wouldn't have happened if not for Shelby's involvement.
Paul
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Re: AC Heritage's new cobra
So......
If all 1960s Cobras were "Shelby's". And this is because they fitted the engine and gearbox.
Doesn't that (by default) make all current "Shelby's " not Shelby's, but "Greasy Joe's Auto Shop (etc.) Cobras" seeing as Shelby don't fit engine and gearboxes now..... in addition to not manufacturing the rest of the car either ???
Just a thought.
If all 1960s Cobras were "Shelby's". And this is because they fitted the engine and gearbox.
Doesn't that (by default) make all current "Shelby's " not Shelby's, but "Greasy Joe's Auto Shop (etc.) Cobras" seeing as Shelby don't fit engine and gearboxes now..... in addition to not manufacturing the rest of the car either ???
Just a thought.
Re: AC Heritage's new cobra
the cobra copyright- and name- question is that everlasting question because inventor and manufacturer are two partys, so why not mention both as often proposed? shelby-ac-cobra for the originals....
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Re: AC Heritage's new cobra
No matter how partisan, it can't be denied that the "Cobra" wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Shelby. However, the idea of putting and American V8 in a European/British chassis wasn't Shelby's as it had been done a number of times before. I think that where Shelby was different and what made the difference, was that he focused on racing and the road car sales success, such as it was, came as a result of that, which was very similar to Ferrari in the early days.db replicas wrote:So......
If all 1960s Cobras were "Shelby's". And this is because they fitted the engine and gearbox.
Doesn't that (by default) make all current "Shelby's " not Shelby's, but "Greasy Joe's Auto Shop (etc.) Cobras" seeing as Shelby don't fit engine and gearboxes now..... in addition to not manufacturing the rest of the car either ???
Just a thought.
I suspect that the AC vs. Shelby argument probably wouldn't have started if Shelby himself hadn't constantly tried to downplay AC's part in the story and famously labelled them as a bunch of winos working under railway arches. I don't ever recall reading or hearing of AC trying to downplay Shelby's part. Shelby had form for this behaviour before and since and tried to take all credit away from Peter Brock for the design of the Coupe.
Paul
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Re: AC Heritage's new cobra
OK, there was some 'input' - but as far as I'm concerned* a leafspring Cobra is an AC, just as my 260 Tiger was a Sunbeam.
*which is therefore my personal opinion only
*which is therefore my personal opinion only