Consultation on changing emissions standards for kit cars
- nikbj68
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Re: Consultation on changing emissions standards for kit cars
Good point.... STRIKE THAT
Hawk 289 FiA...AT LAST!!!
Re: Consultation on changing emissions standards for kit cars
Yes this is serious stuff. How long before it does become retrospective to some extent. I’m sure many of the club’s members put their cars on the road after 2000.
I agree with the many good comments made especially Nige and Nik.
Being critical I’m not sure of the 2nd half of Nige’s comment 2. How many new kit registrations run fuel injection and cats?
My engine would pass the first level of emissions (83 ? ) but not subsequent reductions. All of us on carburettors would fail.
Yes, we all need to reply.
Peter C
I agree with the many good comments made especially Nige and Nik.
Being critical I’m not sure of the 2nd half of Nige’s comment 2. How many new kit registrations run fuel injection and cats?
My engine would pass the first level of emissions (83 ? ) but not subsequent reductions. All of us on carburettors would fail.
Yes, we all need to reply.
Peter C
Re: Consultation on changing emissions standards for kit cars
I've just read this on the AK Cobra facebook page after they had approached a Mr Mark Vickers at VOSA for advice re their Cobra emmissions. If you read to the end it would seem that they're possibly talking about implementing this, should it go through, on 1January 2019
QUOTE AK Cars:-
Government PROPOSALS regarding emissions for IVA testing.
We have had a number of calls and emails regarding the latest Government proposals which will affect every NON LS powered AK 427 currently in build.
Please read this information we have acquired regarding this to date. If we get any further information we will keep you updated.
This is a link to the Government document that has been released the parts relevant to kit cars can be found on page 16 (4.10 – 4.13)
https://www.gov.uk/…/road-vehicles-impr ... quality-an…
In Basic terms … Every car will have to pass current UK emissions and not as currently emissions based on the year of your engine!!!!!!!
Jon has spoken to Mr Mark Vickers of VOSA today to try and clarify the situation. It would appear that although Mr Vickers was not aware of this latest document, he was aware that this procedure on emissions was imminent. His comment that although this is at this stage a proposal he felt that there is a very high chance of it becoming law.
We cannot give a definitive confirmation on dates yet. IF this proposal is passed as anticipated. The document quotes that the consultation period runs from 2/2/18 – 2/3/18 and that drafts will be produced during April 2018.
Two dates appear to factor and we THINK that it will become law on 1st July 2018 and then we will be given 6 months until the 1st January 2019 when it will be enforced.
The current advise from Mr Vickers that if the customer gets to the last minute and the car is close to finishing then book the IVA test for before 1/1/19. You will then have to accept the test failure which then gives you 6 months to re test the car. This then gains you a further 6 months to complete your car. He advises us that the car will be re tested to the original testing emissions as of the date of the failure of the original test. We cannot guarantee this advise as set in stone at this stage though
cheers..NIge
QUOTE AK Cars:-
Government PROPOSALS regarding emissions for IVA testing.
We have had a number of calls and emails regarding the latest Government proposals which will affect every NON LS powered AK 427 currently in build.
Please read this information we have acquired regarding this to date. If we get any further information we will keep you updated.
This is a link to the Government document that has been released the parts relevant to kit cars can be found on page 16 (4.10 – 4.13)
https://www.gov.uk/…/road-vehicles-impr ... quality-an…
In Basic terms … Every car will have to pass current UK emissions and not as currently emissions based on the year of your engine!!!!!!!
Jon has spoken to Mr Mark Vickers of VOSA today to try and clarify the situation. It would appear that although Mr Vickers was not aware of this latest document, he was aware that this procedure on emissions was imminent. His comment that although this is at this stage a proposal he felt that there is a very high chance of it becoming law.
We cannot give a definitive confirmation on dates yet. IF this proposal is passed as anticipated. The document quotes that the consultation period runs from 2/2/18 – 2/3/18 and that drafts will be produced during April 2018.
Two dates appear to factor and we THINK that it will become law on 1st July 2018 and then we will be given 6 months until the 1st January 2019 when it will be enforced.
The current advise from Mr Vickers that if the customer gets to the last minute and the car is close to finishing then book the IVA test for before 1/1/19. You will then have to accept the test failure which then gives you 6 months to re test the car. This then gains you a further 6 months to complete your car. He advises us that the car will be re tested to the original testing emissions as of the date of the failure of the original test. We cannot guarantee this advise as set in stone at this stage though
cheers..NIge
- simonjrwinter
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Re: Consultation on changing emissions standards for kit cars
That’s really not good!
TR6 (V8) Hawk 289 FIA (V8) Doing my bit for global warming.
- nikbj68
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Re: Consultation on changing emissions standards for kit cars
From the Rods'n'Sods Forum :
Although a lot of that isn't directly relevant to/affected by this proposal, the faceless civil servants who brainstormed this into life MUST be made to see that there is ABSOLUTELY NO MEASUREABLE ENVIRONMENTAL BENEFIT, but a devastating effect on "our hobby" and the associated industry and employment that depends on it.
Holy Cow! HUGE numbers. That's an awful lot of revenue that they can't tax, and a shitload of unemployment benefit to pay out!blackpopracing wrote:Last survey (2016) stats for classic/historic (kit/modified?) were;
£662 million income from overseas enthusiasts
34,900 jobs in the historic (only - even more if adding in customising/hot rodding etc) car industry.
6 out of 10 businesses that are worried the new regs will cause problems for the in future trading.
1,039,950 (Registered) historic vehicles in GB
16 million people think it important to use historic vehicles
8.2 million are interested in historic vehicles
£2.05 Billion spent annually on associated items
£1.4 Billion spent annually on historic vehicles
£414 million spent annually on associated items
£262 million spent annually by traders
£5.5 Billion spent annually in total by historic owners
31,100 full or part time workers in historic industry
Now that is the 'Historic' car industry - this would be bigger if it included the Kit car & Rodding industry.
Some pretty big numbers there which the govt would be wise to not mess with in these uncertain times.
Although a lot of that isn't directly relevant to/affected by this proposal, the faceless civil servants who brainstormed this into life MUST be made to see that there is ABSOLUTELY NO MEASUREABLE ENVIRONMENTAL BENEFIT, but a devastating effect on "our hobby" and the associated industry and employment that depends on it.
Hawk 289 FiA...AT LAST!!!
- amulheirn
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Re: Consultation on changing emissions standards for kit cars
I'm thinking of to DVLA, DVSA or VOSA to get some statistics that we could use. However I don't know who to write to.
What I'd like to ask is:
1. How may kit cars are there (both taxed and SORN)?
2. How many of these have gone through IVA as category A ('amateur-built')?
3. How many use the engine from a donor vehicle?
What do you think and which of the three agencies should this kind of question go to?
What I'd like to ask is:
1. How may kit cars are there (both taxed and SORN)?
2. How many of these have gone through IVA as category A ('amateur-built')?
3. How many use the engine from a donor vehicle?
What do you think and which of the three agencies should this kind of question go to?
Re: Consultation on changing emissions standards for kit cars
Andy, I'm a member of a group that deal with the likes of IVA builds and legislation and how it affects the build of a car. They're currently putting together accurate information to send to various media outlets, polititians and others that could have an influence on these proposals. As soon as the draft response is made I'll forward it to you and post it on here for others to use, along with who best to contact and send it to if thats of use?
Nige
Nige
Last edited by agnoraan on Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Consultation on changing emissions standards for kit cars
A Facebook page is now being set up along with template letters to send to those influential people. These will be succinct and to the point, outlining the most important and relevant information to try and bring about changes to the consultation. This was done previously to stop the proposed power to weight ratio limits that were in the earlier consultation last September. Hopefully this will work once again if enough people get behind this motion and reply to this new consultation.
As soon as this is set up and functional I'll post up a link here so that all of the required info regarding this is available to everyone
Nige
As soon as this is set up and functional I'll post up a link here so that all of the required info regarding this is available to everyone
Nige
- amulheirn
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Re: Consultation on changing emissions standards for kit cars
That would be great, thanks. I plan to write my response at the weekend.
A few points I’ve since thought about that I may make:
- reuse of something is way better than recycling. Imagine the vast quantity of energy (and therefore emissions at the manufacturing stage) it takes to melt down and remanufacture an engine block. (Someone told me once that 75% of the emissions that can be attributed to an individual car are made at the manufacturing stage before it drives a single mile - I don’t recall where the statistic comes from)
- measures like these that harm small businesses like Hawk, Chesil, Suffolk Sports Cars etc are in danger of quashing diversity and choice for the consumer. Putting them out of business means one day all we will have is the likes of VW and Ford to choose from. This could also stifle innovation in small car manufacturing.
- if such small manufacturers go out of business there is potentially a parts supply problem for the owners of thousands of cars
- we should draw a distinction between ‘kit cars’ and ‘replica cars’. Some kits can already take a modern engine, while the replica industry is predicated on the use of authentic-looking parts. Not using such parts devalues the product and potentially makes it unsellable.
- The consultation paper majors on diesel emissions. Almost no kit cars use diesel engines.
Andy